Diamond rarity?

[jnads]

This came up in another "hijacked" thread, but multiple people noticed in DW20 and Mindcrack diamond was ultra-rare. It used to be that diamond was in "every chunk". Now, I've mined several chunks @ diamond level (with a Vajra) and no diamond. I have found it.... but only after searching many, many chunks.

I did have a thought.... Is a mod not playing nice with ore generation? Is diamond being overwritten by another ore?

I mean, we have infinity bajillion xycraft blocks, and Thaumcraft 3 shard blocks (which generate around diamond level), tons of RP2 Rubies/Sapphire/Nikolite, and lots of Traincraft Oil Sands. Not all use the ore dictionary.

I'm not familiar how mod ore generation works, but it's quite possible one of these is overwriting diamond.


Possible fixes?:
-Alter Diamond level (would be too confusing)
-Alter the number of diamond clusters from 1 to 2, and reduce the cluster size. This "spreads out diamond", reducing the chance of it being overwritten. It doesn't fix the problem, but reduces the likelihood of issues.

 

[Omicron]

Mindcrack is running an elevated amount of diamond ores. The DW20 pack uses vanilla figures at Direwolf's explicit request.

Try not to fall prey to the clustering illusion... ore distribution is random, and while there is an average of 3 ores per chunk, that is only that, an average. It's entirely within the bounds of probability to see 5 to 10 chunks completely devoid of diamond. To make any real assessment of the diamond density, you could need to examine a much, much larger amount of chunks. A several hundred, at minimum.

 

[jnads]

Mindcrack is running an elevated amount of diamond ores. The DW20 pack uses vanilla figures at Direwolf's explicit request.

Try not to fall prey to the clustering illusion... ore distribution is random, and while there is an average of 3 ores per chunk, that is only that, an average. It's entirely within the bounds of probability to see 5 to 10 chunks completely devoid of diamond. To make any real assessment of the diamond density, you could need to examine a much, much larger amount of chunks. A several hundred, at minimum.

Is it elevated? The ThermalExpansion ore file in MindCrack says 1 diamond cluster and 4 as the cluster size. It's my understanding the mod defers to the TE configuration.

Isn't vanilla clustersize 10?

Did someone screw up? How is that "more"?

 

[Omicron]

It is more because Thermal Expansion adds its worldgen in addition to what vanilla generates. It simply goes and spawns in a vein of diamonds in the exact same way it would spawn in a vein of copper - it waits for the vanlla world generator to do its job, then randomizes a location of plain stone in a certain height band and replaces a certain amount of stone with another block. Like copper ore, or in this case, diamonds. If Thermal Expansion generates no ore at all, the normal amount of vanilla ores will still be present.

There are mods dedicated to completely replacing Minecraft's normal ore generation, but they are complex as heck because they have to overwrite the world generator in order to have a chance to do this. And thus, they must be full world generators themselves. Configuring them to your needs is a nightmare for a layman as you and I.

 

[arkangyl]

The thing is, from what I remember from MC source code, ore distribution is not completely random. It is, within a chunk. It is not, on large scale. I seem to remember that one and only one vein of diamond is guaranteed to spawn, per chunk, presumably to eliminate the statistical fringe possibility of ending up in a freak cluster of chunks with no diamonds, or with solid walls of the ore. They can be overwritten by Mineshafts or Caves, or Lava Lakes, or end up underneath Bedrock, but those are different stages of world gen than ore distro. Albeit, it's been a few months since I last modded anything, so my memory may be faulty. From what I understand of TE ore gen, it simply causes a second pass during the ore distro stage of world gen for each added cluster per chunk.

 

[xCanadianPandax]

Just an idea but if you really want to know if a mod messed with it for DW20 at least. Couldn't you take your world seed. Go into MC edit and enter your seed as a "vanilla" map. Search for diamond blocks and go there in your FTB world to see if they are there?
(Or some alternative to MC Edit.)

Just an idea. I could be wrong, all the coding I have done for MC mods has been outside of ore generation.

I remember reading a post a few days ago that a lot of people in a specific XLBiome were having diamond issues and it was only in that biome or set of biomes. Might be worth checking out. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Ghard0157]

I played a bit of the Direwolf20 pack on a random map and i was struggling for diamonds i cant confirm it but maybe there is a biome in XLBiome that has a reduced diamond amount? Is there a maximum size for a diamond vein in vanilla i have seen up to 11 in one spawn i am guessing it gets rarer to see more but is there a limit?

 

[Tauro]

pretty sure DW20 pack has vanilla diamonds, I ran 4 quarries before DW pack and I got pretty much the same number of diamonds as with the pack. It's just luck.

 

[Hydra]

Funny. Some people on our server are complaining that quarrying a chunk might not net any diamonds and I just quarried a 3x2 size quarry and only got 12. Since diamonds tend to spawn atleast 4 at a time this means some chunks did not have them at all. W're running DW20.

 

[Quesenek]

I have never had a problem finding diamond whenever I need it whether through a quarry or simply strip mining I always find diamonds and often a lot more than I need running mindcrack.
With quarrys I set them up to overlap the last one by one block so there are no walls and it makes one big hole. I typically get any were from 4-15 diamonds for a 24x24 quarry. (If I catch them before the quarry gets them I can even end up with a couple of stacks after a couple of quarrys with my enchanted pickaxe.)

TLDR:
Diamonds are super easy to find bro!

 

[KirinDave]

So the idea from my thread is that the redwood forest biome has some sort of reduced chance to spawn diamonds. It's an interesting biome, and if there is oil (unrelated) and water (for sand and clay) nearby it's often one of the best biomes because of the incredible ease of getting wood and the easy co-opting of supertrees as safe houses. We do not think every biome has a reduced chance.

I mined out a lot of chunks for hours and found no diamonds. I tunneled into the adjacent biome and found 8 over a few hours of mining, which is much more reasonable. Of the other three groups, another chose to try the temperate rainforest biome and found a similar situation (they've moved their base it was so bad). The other groups have experienced normal diamond rates, with the possibility of a freak supercluster in the autumn forest biome (but this is unconfirmed, these people have been using NEI and claiming they haven't been, so I am sort of unsure if I believe the claim now).

I am not sure this is "just luck" as other people show up claiming that particular biome gave them diamond issues. But of course without examining the source code or having someone with analysis tools gather numbers, it's very difficult to amass concrete data on the subject. I think it's at least worth investigating, given we've got at least 5 independent similar experiences.[DOUBLEPOST=1359166421][/DOUBLEPOST]

TLDR:
Diamonds are super easy to find bro!

Cool story bro. I've found 8 in 14 hours of mining, and all 8 were in the last 4 outside this one biome.

 

[Quesenek]

So the idea from my thread is that the redwood forest biome has some sort of reduced chance to spawn diamonds. It's an interesting biome, and if there is oil (unrelated) and water (for sand and clay) nearby it's often one of the best biomes because of the incredible ease of getting wood and the easy co-opting of supertrees as safe houses. We do not think every biome has a reduced chance.

I mined out a lot of chunks for hours and found no diamonds. I tunneled into the adjacent biome and found 8 over a few hours of mining, which is much more reasonable. Of the other three groups, another chose to try the temperate rainforest biome and found a similar situation (they've moved their base it was so bad). The other groups have experienced normal diamond rates, with the possibility of a freak supercluster in the autumn forest biome (but this is unconfirmed, these people have been using NEI and claiming they haven't been, so I am sort of unsure if I believe the claim now).

I am not sure this is "just luck" as other people show up claiming that particular biome gave them diamond issues. But of course without examining the source code or having someone with analysis tools gather numbers, it's very difficult to amass concrete data on the subject. I think it's at least worth investigating, given we've got at least 5 independent similar experiences.[DOUBLEPOST=1359166421][/DOUBLEPOST]

Cool story bro. I've found 8 in 14 hours of mining, and all 8 were in the last 4 outside this one biome.

For your studies test out an extreme hills edge and snow forest biome that's where I have bases and in both I can't dig for any amount of time before I hit a stack a diamonds at bedrock level.

 

[xCanadianPandax]

For your studies test out an extreme hills edge and snow forest biome that's where I have bases and in both I can't dig for any amount of time before I hit a stack a diamonds at bedrock level.

You are also using mindcrack which has increased diamond ore generation compared to DW20 and its vanilla generation.

 

[slay_mithos]

Whoah, there are some seriously unlucky guys here...

I mean, with only 10 tunnels (branch mining) of 100 long, I got a stack and a half of diamonds.
And that was before I tried to enchant something for Fortune.

I can hardly see someone mining 14 hours and finding only 8.
I mean, are you mining with your fists, or a bunch of wooden tools?
Or else, you are mining above the diamond height and only find those under your feet.

Anyway, that's seriously strange, and I would really ask you to dig branch mines at 12 or 13, you will find tons of diamond and all other ores too.

While you are at it, try making either a quarry, frame quarry, IC2 miners or turtles, and start some real excavation, because you seem to be seriously inefficient, and I can see from here that you would complain about not finding tin or copper too...

 

[Quesenek]

You are also using mindcrack which has increased diamond ore generation compared to DW20 and its vanilla generation.

Simply giving my side to the question that the thread starter said diamonds are ultra rare in both mod packs.

 

[xCanadianPandax]

Simply giving my side to the question that the thread starter said diamonds are ultra rare in both mod packs.

You are correct. Sorry I misread.

 

[Zelfana]

Are you using Fortune III at all? I read you're quarrying which means you only get one diamond per ore but Fortune III more than doubles that. In pure vanilla you must have used Fortune III for diamonds and therefore got more bang for the buck and now you're comparing that to quarrying without Fortune III.

 

[KirinDave]

Whoah, there are some seriously unlucky guys here...

I mean, with only 10 tunnels (branch mining) of 100 long, I got a stack and a half of diamonds.

In the biome we're talking about? Because the subject is a specific biome that seems to lack diamond spawns.

I can hardly see someone mining 14 hours and finding only 8.

A week and a half doing my best to find one, yeah.

Anyway, that's seriously strange, and I would really ask you to dig branch mines at 12 or 13, you will find tons of diamond and all other ores too. While you are at it, try making either a quarry, frame quarry, IC2 miners or turtles, and start some real excavation

All those suggestions require diamonds, which only leaving the biome netted. I mined for about a week and a half for 1-3 hours a day; mining was part of my group. My pattern was the one I usually use: a loose 2d hilbert curve on the diamond levels, branch depth of 10, 3 space. The efficiency of this is not as good, but without enchants or drills (we're not using IC2 for this group, it's part of the fun to have diverse settlements) it's a delicate balancing act between resources available and how thoroughly you mine. Usually, it works fine.

because you seem to be seriously inefficient, and I can see from here that you would complain about not finding tin or copper too...

Copper, iron, tin and etc were not a problem; I was forewarned by direwolf20's video (and very much appreciate the decision) that you need multiple branch mines. Gold was also shockingly abundant, I've never had so much in any game I've ever played.

I'm new here. Is it a tradition to write slyly disparaging posts suggesting that someone cannot type "optimal minecraft diamond mining technique" and get hundreds of written and video posts clearly enumerating branch mining, mining heights, etc. Is it a clever in-joke? I don't know if I should laugh and do a virtual shoulder punch ("Good one!") or pantomime extreme boredom. I just don't know.

 

[KirinDave]

Are you using Fortune III at all? I read you're quarrying which means you only get one diamond per ore but Fortune III more than doubles that. In pure vanilla you must have used Fortune III for diamonds and therefore got more bang for the buck and now you're comparing that to quarrying without Fortune III.

0 diamonds means 0 enchantment tables. But yeah, fortune II now is the best I could muster. It helps a lot! And Wands of Excavation are the best thing ever!

 

[arkangyl]

I too have had this problem, as stated in the other thread. In a Temperate Rainforest, I honeycomb mined 9 chunks, from block 4 to 15, and found one solitary diamond. I chalked it up to statistical anomaly, until KirinDave mentioned the Temperate Rainforest issue in his world. I play on the Mindcrack pack, which has elevated diamond spawning, as well. Once I started mining in a nearby Ice Wasteland, I found diamonds normally.