Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions

[Pyure]

I've been using high power for the extractor mainly because I didn't want to use a timer and a toggle switch of some sort, it slows things down more than my liking. Is there a way to remove the middle stage products from the extractor, to switch between two different extractors or something? Every time I try I only get the flakes out, but if I can use two extractors for different stages, then I only need 16MW x 2 extractors to run top speed. Otherwise I'm either stuck with a toggle, or huge power usage.

I really recommend you do the timer/RS signal thing. Its easy to set up and will save you absolutely tons of power.

Reika is absolutely adamant that you not dedicate extractors to individual extraction rates. Yes, this is completely insane. No, nobody would ever set it up like this. Yes, Reika has a fancy image of an extraction machine which he simulated to make this sensible. No its still not sensible. And for the most part he has (to my knowledge) cut off any mods which are supposed to be able to manage individual slots in machines, so there's only way to use this machine (critical caveat: my knowledge may be out of date, take with a grain of salt)

I thought the borer took quite a bit of power. For torque the book says that it's 512Nm for harder materials, but even when I had one on 4096Nm it kept getting stuck (rather randomly). Looking for an answer I stumbled on a wiki page that said the torque was per block, not per slice, and that seemed to make sense with the bore getting stuck randomly whilst having what would've seemed like loads of torque. I haven't gotten to test much further than that yet, since the next test was going to be supplying TONS of torque to see if it still gets stuck. Could you offer any insights?

512Nm is 512W by itself, which is nothing. Its when you start adding speed that it ramps up, and honestly this thing runs fast enough at low speeds that you won't really care. Also: your talk of slices makes me wonder if you're confusing the bedrock breaker with the borer. (The bedrock breaker cuts a block into visual slices as it operates. But the borer proceeds a cross-sectional "slice" at a time, so your info may be legit.)

It still seems a bit odd to me that the top tier battery can't output energy at anywhere near the level that you're producing it, at the stage you'd make one. With a 20GW reactor setup, you'd need 80 batteries, (41k diamonds) to keep up with it if you actually wanted to use it all. The way batteries inputs/storage/outputs are setup it seems that when using batteries and reactors, you'd charge up the batteries every once in a while, then you'd be set for power for days/weeks at a time between reactor runs.

In Reika's defense, I don't think the batteries were intended to perform the exact way you were intending to use them. I personally used them the same as you just mentioned: I ran my reactors very briefly, since they had the nasty habit of exploding at the time and I wanted to watch them. Unfortunately a lot of RoC seems to want you to run your power grid is an extremely decentralized manner, but you always have the option of storing your energy in other forms for "burst" output (although not too many mods offer better output than the auroral, and nothing beats it for storage afaik)

 

[Antaioz]

I really recommend you do the timer/RS signal thing. Its easy to set up and will save you absolutely tons of power.

Reika is absolutely adamant that you not dedicate extractors to individual extraction rates. Yes, this is completely insane. No, nobody would ever set it up like this. Yes, Reika has a fancy image of an extraction machine which he simulated to make this sensible. No its still not sensible. And for the most part he has (to my knowledge) cut off any mods which are supposed to be able to manage individual slots in machines, so there's only way to use this machine (critical caveat: my knowledge may be out of date, take with a grain of salt)

I suspected this was the case. I'm still not entirely fond of the toggle setup, but unless I use insane amounts of power it's still the fastest.

512Nm is 512W by itself, which is nothing. Its when you start adding speed that it ramps up, and honestly this thing runs fast enough at low speeds that you won't really care. Also: your talk of slices makes me wonder if you're confusing the bedrock breaker with the borer. (The bedrock breaker cuts a block into visual slices as it operates. But the borer proceeds a cross-sectional "slice" at a time, so your info may be legit.)

oh wow, I didn't realise how little the rad/s actually affected the boring machine's speed until now (I just ran one at 1rad/s v 1024 rad/s, it went from ~10s to ~4s) this is useful .
It was the boring machine, by 'slice' I mean layer of blocks, at max its 35 blocks. So that would seem to make the torque requirement for, say, a layer of entirely obsidian around 18kNm (512Nm * 35 blocks) if that wiki was accurate.
At 1rad/s thats 18kW, multiply that by about 10 for a nice stack of borers and I'm looking at 180kW for a boring setup, based purely on torque requirements. hm..

But then there's the part in the book that says you need 640W per hardness point in the blocks you're mining, but does that mean for every block combined, or the hardest block per layer? if it's every block then a wall of obsidian requires 1.12MW of power (50 hardness * 640W * 35 blocks). which means 11.2MW for a stack of borers, which... isn't even as much as I was testing with before...

I assumed the boring machine would've run extremely slowly at low rad/s like most other machines, I think it inflated my power math before.

So maybe I am trying to over-power things. But since I'm going to be getting gigawatts soon, I sorta wanted to use all that power .

I still feel like I'm draining a lake with a garden hose though...

 

[Pyure]

But then there's the part in the book that says you need 640W per hardness point in the blocks you're mining, but does that mean for every block combined, or the hardest block per layer? if it's every block then a wall of obsidian requires 1.12MW of power (50 hardness * 640W * 35 blocks). which means 11.2MW for a stack of borers, which... isn't even as much as I was testing with before...

I wasn't aware that there was a wattage/block restriction, so if that's correct, yeah, you need to apply more power.

Are you sending power via tesseracts or something? Its still not a huge problem for you to have a bunch of smaller batteries each powering a tesseract dedicated to a borer.

Part of my problem is I can easily get by with just 2 or 3 borers, 1 for each "interesting" elevation, and here you are talking about running stacks of them

 

[Antaioz]

I wasn't aware that there was a wattage/block restriction, so if that's correct, yeah, you need to apply more power.

Are you sending power via tesseracts or something? Its still not a huge problem for you to have a bunch of smaller batteries each powering a tesseract dedicated to a borer.

Part of my problem is I can easily get by with just 2 or 3 borers, 1 for each "interesting" elevation, and here you are talking about running stacks of them

I don't think tesseracts transport electricraft power, and magnetostatics got a big nerf so they require liquid nitrogren, though I'm not sure that would be incredibly difficult to mass produce and tesseract around along with RF at this type of endgame stage.

Why wouldn't you run stacks of borers? strip the world from bedrock to the sky, just because! .

I think my biggest problems were not realising that the extractor can actually run all four stages, in two seperate gear setups, on just 16MW, plus not really wanting to. That and not knowing that the borer doesn't slow to a crawl at incredibly low rad/s. Power estimates are coming up below the 268MW output now.

I also guess one good thing about the massive battery and small output is that I can charge one up, take it to the borers and then just leave it there for ages and ages without worrying.

 

[Pyure]

I don't think tesseracts transport electricraft power, and magnetostatics got a big nerf so they require liquid nitrogren, though I'm not sure that would be incredibly difficult to mass produce and tesseract around along with RF at this type of endgame stage.

I'd forgotten about the liquid nitrogen change; it didn't exist last time I played. Theoretically of course you can transport it through the same tesseract though, but you're still left with having to mass-produce it. Yes I was indeed talking about magnetostatics: the only good use I found for them was for borers.

An auroral battery will run a borer basically forever, so this is a good option, especially if you can somehow get an alert when the power runs out.

 

[gallowglass]

oh wow, I didn't realise how little the rad/s actually affected the boring machine's speed until now (I just ran one at 1rad/s v 1024 rad/s, it went from ~10s to ~4s) this is useful .

IIRC there is an equation in the book with a log in it, so yeah, increasing rad/s doesn't increase speed of operation very fast.

 

[Demosthenex]

I heard someone say bore from bedrock to sky.

I have a tower of 20 bores from bedrock to just over 120. Does that count? ;]

All run off a single jet engine @ 4 MW each, and the jet fuel lasts for ages. Kudos to Reika for his clean code, no TPS lag at all running 20 at once.

 

[ScorpioOld]

I don't think tesseracts transport electricraft power, and magnetostatics got a big nerf so they require liquid nitrogren, though I'm not sure that would be incredibly difficult to mass produce and tesseract around along with RF at this type of endgame stage.

Mass production of liquid nitroget is trivial: one microturbine (Fluid Crystallizer) in cold biome + 16 MW graphene battery driven Refrigerating unit for liquid nitrogen production. They match exactly considering ice production and ice consumption.

 

[Reika]

Reika is absolutely adamant that you not dedicate extractors to individual extraction rates. Yes, this is completely insane. No, nobody would ever set it up like this. Yes, Reika has a fancy image of an extraction machine which he simulated to make this sensible. No its still not sensible. And for the most part he has (to my knowledge) cut off any mods which are supposed to be able to manage individual slots in machines, so there's only way to use this machine (critical caveat: my knowledge may be out of date, take with a grain of salt)

That is an intentional balance point, that automating an extractor, especially rapidly, requires both a significant power infrastructure and a good understanding of the power mechanics and ingenuity to use them. Simply running four extractors in parallel, each running a stage, requires neither, and a player who only has access to steam engines and a few gearboxes can pull it off.

borer doesn't slow to a crawl at incredibly low rad/s

Unless you count 30s/step as such a crawl.

Also: borers don't really consume much energy. They won't consume much of your power at all.

Have you forgotten about my 2GW mining setup?

 

[Pyure]

That is an intentional balance point, that automating an extractor, especially rapidly, requires both a significant power infrastructure and a good understanding of the power mechanics and ingenuity to use them. Simply running four extractors in parallel, each running a stage, requires neither, and a player who only has access to steam engines and a few gearboxes can pull it off.

Yeah I'm aware. My point is directed to those players who prefer multiple-block factory setups to single-block solutions or would like to do things in multiple ways other than a rigidly predefined "correct" way. (notwithstanding the option to waste monstrous piles of energy.) I did the timer setup personally, but would have appreciated the option to split it up cleverly if possible.

Have you forgotten about my 2GW mining setup?

Yours was a stack of like 10 of the things if I recall correctly. Way overboard for anyone not preparing to build something akin to a ReC fusion reactor (but fun nonetheless of course)

 

[Demosthenex]

Regarding bore setups... I had considered making a rig that had many bores all running off a small HTG reactor, and try to make it self-fueling. My concern was if I used Electricraft to distribute the power to the bores, was the major lag problem with long EC cables still a concern?

 

[Pyure]

Regarding bore setups... I had considered making a rig that had many bores all running off a small HTG reactor, and try to make it self-fueling. My concern was if I used Electricraft to distribute the power to the bores, was the major lag problem with long EC cables still a concern?

Can't answer your question, so tangent: I've always wanted to try something like Compact Machines, which lets you have a portal "small room" of machines "inside" of a block, and place a small nuclear reactor in one. Cart that places where you need power

I've also always thought that sort of mod (basically a nano factory) would be suited to Reika's development style but its already been done unfortunately.

Oh, on topic: Since borers run endlessly anyway, why not just build the HTG on site and forego the long cables?

 

[DaytonV]

So, thinking about auto-mining setups, I've been having some issues with a very, very modified Ressurection pack (out went the magic and gregtech, in went the Reika mods). Specifically, geostrata is generating the different ore varients in quarz, shale, etc, but I keep getting bugged versions of granite coal ore, where the texture doesn't match the block from NEI or the WAILA popup, and where I try to mine it, it tosses a stack overflow at me.

Using Minecraft 1.7.10, DragonApi V3d, Geostrata V3b.

I was poking around for a config setting to turn off the ore gen in the different types of stone, but I was unsure what I:"Ore Mode" should be set to, to try and disable those ores from generating. If you wouldn't mind letting us know what options the ore mode has, or pointing me to the documentation for that, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you!

As an aside: Reika-if you'd like additional info on this one, I can get you the crashlog and screen shots. Figured this was more of a config file explanation request than a bug report (the issue appears that it'd already been reported back in V3a, as you'd line item'd ore crashes for V3b).

 

[Demosthenex]

Since borers run endlessly anyway, why not just build the HTG on site and forego the long cables?

I'd need a run over 100 blocks long with many outputs... I thought it was restricted to about 10 blocks.

 

[Pyure]

I'd need a run over 100 blocks long with many outputs... I thought it was restricted to about 10 blocks.

Oh I see what you're saying. Don't we have a multiblock splitter? I forget what its called but I thought there was a hub block of some sort that would let you convert to rotation immediately, and then split that rotation evenly between all of its output dots.

Of course this is a resource efficiency nightmare considering your multiblock would be 100 tall.

 

[Demosthenex]

Oh I see what you're saying. Don't we have a multiblock splitter? I forget what its called but I thought there was a hub block of some sort that would let you convert to rotation immediately, and then split that rotation evenly between all of its output dots.

Of course this is a resource efficiency nightmare considering your multiblock would be 100 tall.

There's the shaft power bus, but it only works horizontally last I checked. It also consumes lube.

This is why I haven't moved past my one jet engine per bore setup. I can use fluiducts to split jet fuel evenly across engines.

 

[Pyure]

There's the shaft power bus, but it only works horizontally last I checked. It also consumes lube.

This is why I haven't moved past my one jet engine per bore setup. I can use fluiducts to split jet fuel evenly across engines.

Got it, and your solution seems pretty solid under the circumstances.

I wonder if a logical request would be for a simpler, vertical splitter that only allowed output in one horizontal direction.

I have no idea how such as gizmo could be described and designed in realistic terms, but it seems there could be significant use for such a thing.

 

[DaytonV]

If I remember correctly, in Reika's setup he used ElectriCraft to distribute power to his boring setup, and just ran wires, with resistors to set the current flow.

 

[Pyure]

If I remember correctly, in Reika's setup he used ElectriCraft to distribute power to his boring setup, and just ran wires, with resistors to set the current flow.

Demo's concern is that his setup will be considerably larger than Reika's, and thus may overrun the "recommended" electricraft wire length.

 

[Demosthenex]

If I remember correctly, in Reika's setup he used ElectriCraft to distribute power to his boring setup, and just ran wires, with resistors to set the current flow.

Exactly. What I asked about is if long runs of electricraft cable were still a lag concern. They used to cause major TPS issues a while back.

RotaryCraft is heavily biased toward onsite adjacent power creation because it ties to the idea of physical energy from engines. You can't run axles all over your base... Later in the game when you start making reactors, the current technique is to charge batteries or coils and cart them around, which is very similar in being a portable replacement to engines.

I wish you could eventually run a large powerplant from the reactor and then have electricraft wiring everywhere (long runs, many outputs) to replace your on-demand engine power to always on electrical power. Most of the RF mods do that now (ie: BigReactors) where it's always on, and a large network of RF conduits doesn't seem to have a major impact on performance.

I think EC is using an algorithm where each wire transfers power from the one next to it, so each one is using independent logic updates per tick which would be very heavy in CPU load. Again, I just think that's how it works from what I observed in game. If that is the case, would it be more practical to move to a supplier/consumer model where tree discovery is done once by the consumer, and it communicates directly with the provider to draw energy. The tree algorithm could account for resistors and wiring loss calculations, and only perform them at a scheduled interval or on wiring change event?