How I Did Thaumcraft 4.0.5 Research

Discussion in 'Mod Discussion' started by MigukNamja, Dec 2, 2013.

  1. MigukNamja

    MigukNamja Popular Member

    Introduction

    I started this thread to help others learn and use Azanor's most excellent Thaumcraft 4 mod. It's a great mod, but with a helluva steep research learning curve that almost had me removing the mod from my server. I'm glad I didn't !

    To save others similarly frustrating experiencies and get into the meat of the mod, I'm sharing my experience with Thaumcraft 4 research. The advice given her expands upon the excellent advice and guides (especially Succubism !) already given in other threads. The following is based upon my experience with TC 4.0.5, Thaumic Tinkerer, and Magic Bees, now all unlocked.

    Procedure

    1. Build a research table.

    2. Put shards (1 of each primal) and a few bookcases around. This will slowly generate 1 primal research point when that primal is empty.

    3. Combine primals to learn 2nd-tier, 3rd-tier, and eventually *all* aspects:
    http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/thr...-update-with-doc-succubism.32560/#post-448030

    If you don't have enough points, you can also do this:
    http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/thaumcraft-4-a-quick-way-to-discover-all-aspects.33605/

    This step is best done before embarking on scanning expeditions to avoid wasting time on "You don't have the necessary knowledge" messages.

    4. Whenever you visit your research table, try to use all primal research points. This way, you will get more "free" points from the crystal clusters, bookcases, etc.,. near your research table. I personally found the following are efficient ways to use primals, in rough descending order from highest priority (most in demand) to lowest:

    Motus = Aer + Ordo
    Victus = Aqua + Terra
    Vacuos = Aer + Perditio
    Potentia = Ordo + Ignis

    Note that Aer and Ordo can be used two different ways. Try to prioritize Motus over Vacuos and Potentia, at roughly a 4:1 ratio. Also, don't worry about trying to use/burn Ignis and Perdito, just try to use up *all* Aer, Aqua, Ordo, and Terra in the early game and take full advantage of the 1 free point when they are at zero and only at zero. I can't stress that enough.

    You will also need to accumulate a *lot* of these 2nd-tier and 3rd-tier aspects:

    Mortuus = Victus + Perditio
    Preacantatio = Vacuos + Potentia
    Spiritus = Victus + Mortuus

    You don't have to memorize all aspect combos, but try to memorize these 7. If you keep these 7 aspects well-stocked, you will be doing good.

    5. With #3 done, scan *everything* in the natural world and everything you build/make/craft. Keep the Thaumometer on your hotbar and use it constantly. Learning all the aspects before trying to scan everything with save lots of time wasted on "You don't have the knowledge required for this" messages.

    While most mods include TC4 aspects in their metadata, some do not. Tinkers's Construct and Natura, for instance, currently do not include hardly any TC4 aspect metadata, so expect to learn nothing from most of these blocks and items.

    Note you can scan placed blocks in the world and (intentionally) dropped items on the ground.

    6. Be frugal when researching. Many research sheets don't require all aspects be lit up.

    7. If necessary, burn cheap mats in the Deconstruction Table.

    The Decon table will only give you primals, and those are derived from the primal and higher-order aspects in the mat being burned. The primal "learned" from the Decon table is random. You may get Ignis when you already have 200+ Ignis. Just click through it to eventually get to the one you really need, like Aqua or Terra.

    Try to use mats with all primals and use cheap mats. If you have a cheap way to turn cobblestone into mossy cobblestone, that's a good one. I got all the primals I needed from just mossy cobblestone.

    (to be continued)
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    Retec likes this.
  2. MigukNamja

    MigukNamja Popular Member

    There's potentially many optimal research algorithms, but here's a not-so-terrible way to research that I used recently with 4.0.5 :

    1. Click the cheapest (must abundant) aspect 1st, but don't light it up yet

    2. Hover over the draft research sheet at the top to find out what you're researching. ALT+TAB and refer to Succubism's excellent research cheat sheet:

    http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/thr...-back-to-the-update-with-doc-succubism.32560/

    Take note of the aspects required.

    3. Calculate minimum number of symbols to connect all nodes.

    Fully explaining an optimal research mini-game algorithm is beyond the scope of this post, but briefly, start with the glowing blue node and mentally connect the rest with the shortest path. The path cannot split and you cannot go out both sides of the initial blue node. It's a one-way path. You don't have to make a loop, but you do have to connect all nodes. Note you do *not* have to connect all aspect symbols and indeed can leave some unlit. Also note that some lit symbols may get in the way by forcing the path to diverge. Move them or use unlit symbols to block the connection.

    One common example:

    Code:
    N-s
    |x
    s
    N is a Node
    s are lit symbols
    x is a blocker (unlit) symbol

    Without x, s and s may short-circuit, causing the node to be skipped. You need x to block s-s and force s-N and N-s. Direwolf20's TC4 Mod Spotlight part 1 has an excellent example of this at the 16:30 mark.

    Also note the patterns are mostly random. If one pattern is too tough (i.e. requires too many hairpin turns), toss the draft research sheet and start over.

    4. Click the cheapest aspect again to light its symbols up. Don't worry about where they're at just yet.

    5. Count the number of symbols lit up. All remaining, unlit aspects will light up the same number of symbols.

    6. Divide the symbols needed (from step 3 above) by the symbols per aspect to reach the minimum number of aspects needed to light up.

    For base Thaumcraft 4, you will likely often not to use all of them. On average, I only need about 70% of the total maximum. this means I could often not light up (spend) the most expensive 1 or even 2 aspects. A few days ago, I researched Thaumium Golems using only Metallum, Motus, and Praecantatio. I did not spend a single point from Permutatio or Spiritus.

    Thaumic Tinkerer [TT], however, often had impossible research sheets where step 3 (minimum symbols) was greater than maximum available. I had to throw away many of these sheets and roll the dice on a new, random one until I got one that was possible.

    7. Continue lighting up aspects, from the cheapest to the most expensive, until you reach the minimum number of symbols to connect.

    8. Move blockers (unlit symbols) out of the way or in the way to intentionally prevent short-circuits.

    9. Unlight the symbols, move them, and re-light them. Ideally, you will only need to unlight/re-light each aspect once, but I made plenty of mistakes. Just keep repeating until research is done.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    PierceSG likes this.
  3. PierceSG

    PierceSG Popular Member

    Not interested in TC due to taint (don't wanna disable it, seems cheaty that way) but thanks for the effort to provide help on TC, like Succubism. :)
    MigukNamja likes this.
  4. MigukNamja

    MigukNamja Popular Member

    Probably like you, I was shocked and angry to find Taint had overrun a lot of my territory and by the time I figured out:

    A) What it was
    B) How to deal with it
    C) Had researched how to deal with it
    D) Was starting to deal with it

    ...I was already screwed. Default Taint biome behavior and taint-from-bad-nodes behavior was not fun at all for me. I tossed out the truly !!FUN!! parts of Taint that are almost completely outside of my control and kept the parts that I can control.

    Code:
        # The chance per chunk (1 in n) of a Taint biome spawning during world gen. Setting it to 0 prevents the spawning of Taint biomes.
        I:biome_taint_chance=0
    
        # Can Taint be caused by flux effects.
        B:biome_taint_from_flux=true
    
        # The chance per block update (1 in n) of the Taint biome spreading. Setting it to 0 prevents the spread of Taint biomes.
        I:biome_taint_spread=0
    Nobody is perfect and no mod is perfect. I chaulk up default Taint behavior as something that is !!FUN!! for some people, but most certainly not truly fun for most people.
    Zenthon_127 and PierceSG like this.
  5. Algester

    Algester Active Member

    ESPECIALLY if the taint happens right next to spawn point NO ONE AND NO ONE REALLY REALLY WANTS THAT ohh it happened to me on several occasions good with it was'nt SMP else my friends who just joined the server would have been screwed...
    but important notes about taint if the taint is on water it doesnt neccessarily mean you need to dive down and plant ethereal bloom and silver wood saplings (that would be a very very painful ordeal especially if the taint is in a BoP ocean biome WHICH IS VERY VERY DEEP) you can actually clean them on a surface level just plop down your ethereal bloom and wait it should remove the taint

    Just curious does Bibliocraft bookshelves filled with books help?
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
    PierceSG likes this.
  6. James_Grimm

    James_Grimm Active Member

    Neat take on a different track to the usual with TC research (most people go the "scan everything with the thaumameter first, then do ..." route). I'll give it a try next world I start.

    A few things:
    1) Update Natura? I'm using 12.2 and getting aspects with Natura trees/plants/blocks. Several of them are pretty useful, like barley seeds for Permutatio essence. Still no aspects on the most recent update of Tinker's however.
    2) I've had some success on my roommates server with setting the taint spread a factor of 10x or more slower (2000+, and increasing the rarity of taint chunks also), for those who want a middle ground. The taint on that game barely spread over several days of playing off (we didn't even all agree that it had) and on in that area. We did disable hard nodes however to avoid hungry nodes, would have kept the extra zombie part of sinister if we could have, but the config isn't that fine grained. I mention this because Taint aspects are used for making something, if I recall correctly, in either TC or TT and so having some in existence is nice for harvest purposes.
    Odovbold and MigukNamja like this.
  7. MigukNamja

    MigukNamja Popular Member

    Yes, Vitium. It's used for a few of the more difficult recipes. However, one can make their own taint with boil, bubble, crucible of trouble :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 3, 2013 ---
    I did the "scan everything first" procedure my 1st time with Thaumcraft 4 and got tired of the "You don't have the knowledge required" message. I got that on...grass ? I didn't know what a tree was for a loooong time.

    This time through, however, I scanned everything in my base, made the starter Thaumcraft 4 setup, and combined all the aspects I could, following Succubism's list of all aspects. That only took a few minutes at the research table. Then, when I went scanning in the world, I got a near 100% hit ratio. Much more rewarding and a better use of time, IMHO.
  8. James_Grimm

    James_Grimm Active Member

    I never see the goo actually form up into a slime, so I've never seen or fought one. Maybe I'm being too impatient, as the goo usually happens inside my base when I screw up crucible crafting something (I still haven't gotten Hyper Nitor to work), so I end up cleaning it up after a bit. Perhaps I'll set up a experiment outside of my house. Outside.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013

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