Hardcore Modpacks and NAM

[1SDAN]

With the recent release of Hunger Overhaul for 1.7.10 I have decided to update my (currently WAY Indev) modpack to said version. A lot changed in 1.7, including the release of Electrical Age that has finally given me a reason to move on from IC2. Since so many dramatic changes had occurred in the structure of my pack I have decided to start this as a new era for my pack development. Feeling comfortable with my abilities to derp around a config file, I had decided i'd like to ask for ideas from the FTB community. My pack currently under the working title NAM (Not Another Modpack) and even though I had just compiled the 1.7 mods and got them working, I have put in over 5 hours and 30 KB worth of code working MineTweaker 2 back in 1.6.4. To make a long story short, I'm hoping to ask for your help to guide my pack.

My current viewpoint of what I want my modpack to be:


NAM has and will be designed for the uber hardcore players of Modded MC. While it will use all the conventional standards of HCMC: Hunger Overhaul, TiCon both Iguana's Tweaks and Spice of Life, I have decided to also add in the mod Ex Nihilo, Forestry, Mariculture, OpenComputers, HydrauliCraft Blood Magic and the aforementioned Electrical Age mod (I think this is allowed in packs, the main post was confusing and talked about OpenComputers in the modpack area) as main focal points of my pack and have removed Pam's Harvest Craft for quite a specific reason. NAM currently consists of 61 mods all with very specific placements in the Tech Tree in mind. Now this may sound very ambitious and indeed it is, I started about a year ago and worked for a good 3 months at first, then I took a break for a month and came back for 2. After that I started to alternate months until 2 months ago when progress was halted. The main problem I had was that the lack of playtesting by my friends led me to guess and check work. And while I am afraid I don't have an answer to that yet as I really don't want to step on any devs' toes, I believe a change to 1.7.10 is exactly what I need to get the pack all ready and rearing. As you may be able to tell by now, this thread is just as much of a place to jot down my ideas as it is a way to explain what I've been doing.

Now for some background: I am a second year High School student with 2-3 hours a day of freetime and just about infinite amounts on weekends. In the past I've had a habit of randomly stopping projects and starting others, and this pack is the only project I have actively worked on longer than a month. (Other that a Civ V mod I made back when I had no idea of how to mod whatsoever (I still know very little, but I at least know the basics)) I love MineCraft and gaming in general and I love hard mods. I mean NES hard. BnBs isn't even satisfying enough for me!!! So I decided to take it upon myself and make a modpack so hard you cannot even survive your first night without hiding in a hole or standing on a tree all night! (Don't worry, by the third night you'll be able to mine)

So I guess that feeds directly into what to expect:

1. Expect to die. A lot. So much you will cry
2. Expect no savepoints, at all. By this I mean if you die you will respawn within 1000 blocks of spawn, no more though. There is no skipping the night or setting spawn in beds, but they do help keep you sane quite well. If you don't want to wander back to spawn on an empty stomach, build a train track back.
3. Expect to eat a lot. This pack doesn't pull any punches, early game is basically all about managing your time between eating, getting food and getting materials to make new tools so you don't have to eat so much.
4. Expect to clear cut. Trees take a bot load of time to grow, and even longer on SMP. Wood is a really valuable resource, and the higher up the tech tree, the more you'll need.
5. Expect to drain entire oceans. Water is a valuable resource too with CodeChickenCore's Finite Water. Rain is your best friend.
6. Expect to die at night. Special mobs with configs where it's rare not to see at least 5 SM per night near you.
7. Expect to forget the safety of home. With torches lasting only 5 minutes thanks to the Amnesia Lights Mod and later game lighting becoming later game, your in trouble.
8. Expect to appreciate your Vitamins and Minerals. Now each food is classed in a SoL food group based on their IRL most important Vitamin or Mineral. And without Pam's you'll starve if you don't find some new ways to feed yourself.
9. Expect no mercy. The lack of a Minimap mod and the very presence of block physics means that home made out of dirt just fell on top of you.
10. Expect sticks. Logs are crafted into 2 sticks in the ages before metal. Yeah, I went there.
11. Expect a tight Tech Tree. Mods are woven together tighter than a fat guy in spandex... maybe. But it's still very nicely balanced and paced. The only times it really feels grindy is the initial first two day's race for wood (which is a noob-proofing device and a way to tell people this pack will take time) and the TiCon Smeltery material hunt which is purely done to tell people "Yo, join SMP."
12. Expect to play SMP. Most things in the pack are balanced around SMP. The only things that are not are the plant growth times because no one wants to idle for 24 hours. This pack is made for tight-knit communities that want to have fun dying
13. Expect to enjoy dying. Every death will not end your game, but instead make you better by noticing your shortcomings. The pack may be hard, but it will still be possible. Back in 1.6.4 I have made it past day 2 quite a few times. And then I noticed I forgot a recipe... or found a glaring gap in progression or.. you know what? I probably should stop talking now.

There is much more to add but I have to go to bed. This is the basics of the pack and trust me, it is way easier than it sounds. Discuss your thoughts and feel free to discuss your own opinions about Hardcore Modpacks.

 

[Qazplm601]

heard "modpack" must read everything!

 

[buggirlexpres]

Blood Magic

I'm interested.

 

[1SDAN]

I'm interested.

I'm MineTweakering/ModTweakering it to play a major part in the late game. Once Redstone gives you access to Steel you will be able to mine Diamonds. Once you get Diamonds and complete the Missing Link items you will be able to enter into the magic side of the mod which includes BM Witchery and used to be Reliquary back in 1.6.4 Alchemy becomes a major part of advancing and soon you will gain the appropriate tools to mine the nether ores. And those will allow you to get the OP stuffs. But remember, in all of the time it took me with 1.6.4, I only just barely got to working on recipes in the iron age (It went Wood to Flint to Copper to Iron to Bronze to Steel to Diamond to the Nether ores in 1.6.4.

So BM won't be for quite a while, especially since I'm mostly starting over.

 

[PODonnell]

definitely sounds interesting, Though I do admit, I tend to prefer SSP, but then I'll survive having to grind my way through a few recipes.

 

[1SDAN]

definitely sounds interesting, Though I do admit, I tend to prefer SSP, but then I'll survive having to grind my way through a few recipes.

Don't worry, SSP is manageable for the most part aside from a few points near the end of specific Eras. Specifically the aformentioned Smeltery grind, a grind when you are first setting up your Redstone industry and a couple other chokepoints I haven't worked out yet. The main reason these even exist is to slow players down and let them have time to look at what else they can use and do, something that I believe is very important when you're going blind. Makes you look up recipes in NEI or look for tips online and you find new areas of the mod.

I also mostly test by myself as I'm a one man team so it'll still be very possible regardless of the amount of players.

Also, I'm currently expirimenting with TFC style ore gen so that may be a barrier also. Fair warning: this will probably be a niche mod

 

[ewsmith]

as for lighting: slabs
people seem to forget that lights are not the only thing preventing spawning. transparent blocks work as well.

 

[Golrith]

Using EnviroMine for falling blocks in a modded environment is a nightmare. I attempted that in 1.6.4 and was never satisfied. You almost have to define settings per block, which is a massive time investment for very minor results.

What are you using to slow down the growth of trees?

Your NAM pack sounds like the next difficulty level of my Omega Dawn pack. In OD, I'm using finite water, custom ore spawning system (roughly 1/4 ores using poor ores and custom items), custom recipes, various mob mods, spice of life, etc.

 

[Codraroll]

This sounds a little too hardcore for me to play personally, but I'd love to see a Let's Play of it.

 

[epidemia78]

Im somewhat up for a hardcore experience but I would never play without thaumcraft installed.

 

[1SDAN]

Using EnviroMine for falling blocks in a modded environment is a nightmare. I attempted that in 1.6.4 and was never satisfied. You almost have to define settings per block, which is a massive time investment for very minor results.

What are you using to slow down the growth of trees?

Your NAM pack sounds like the next difficulty level of my Omega Dawn pack. In OD, I'm using finite water, custom ore spawning system (roughly 1/4 ores using poor ores and custom items), custom recipes, various mob mods, spice of life, etc.

I personally am up for setting up physics per block, it just improves the game so much IMO. Only reason I didn't want to Spice of Life Pam's is because I didn't want to do all the googling for vitamins and minerals.

@epidemia78 I used to include Thaumcraft back in 1.6.4 but I found it'd just be too hard to balance around the Tech Tree.

 

[epidemia78]

Thats a shame. Ive seen theres a lot of TC compatibility built into gregtech these days. Both mods tend to lean a bit towards the tedious side of things, making you work hard for everything. Ive had an idea brewing for a while about a modpack much like this one but with an alternate magic tech tree as well. If you consider copper, tin, lead and all the rest as essential ingredients in almost all tech mods, it would be neat if such an approach could be taken with Thaumcraft's shards. Im guessing that its difficult or impossible to change certain things about TC with any sort of tweaker, right? I would make some of the most powerful items from certain other magical themed mods and make them require thaumcraft infastructure instead of having to jump through blood magic and botania hoops which IMO are not nearly as well thought out as TC mechanics.

 

[1SDAN]

Thats a shame. Ive seen theres a lot of TC compatibility built into gregtech these days. Both mods tend to lean a bit towards the tedious side of things, making you work hard for everything. Ive had an idea brewing for a while about a modpack much like this one but with an alternate magic tech tree as well. If you consider copper, tin, lead and all the rest as essential ingredients in almost all tech mods, it would be neat if such an approach could be taken with Thaumcraft's shards. Im guessing that its difficult or impossible to change certain things about TC with any sort of tweaker, right? I would make some of the most powerful items from certain other magical themed mods and make them require thaumcraft infastructure instead of having to jump through blood magic and botania hoops which IMO are not nearly as well thought out as TC mechanics.

Trust me, it saddened me too when I made the decision, but my pack always had the goal of requiring the use of multiple machines from different mods to advance. Problem is that without the aformentioned tweakers I can't integrate TC as fully as I'd wish.

 

[Qazplm601]

Trust me, it saddened me too when I made the decision, but my pack always had the goal of requiring the use of multiple machines from different mods to advance. Problem is that without the aformentioned tweakers I can't integrate TC as fully as I'd wish.

What is wrong with the tweakers you are using? What tweakers are you using?

 

[Golrith]

I personally am up for setting up physics per block, it just improves the game so much IMO. Only reason I didn't want to Spice of Life Pam's is because I didn't want to do all the googling for vitamins and minerals.

@epidemia78 I used to include Thaumcraft back in 1.6.4 but I found it'd just be too hard to balance around the Tech Tree.

It's quite a chore, since it's all blocks and tile entities. I also found that the default behavior for leaves causes some mod added trees to disintegrate on generation, or disintegrate on a block update. Trees can be great "fun" if you set them so that their leaves block fall down. Makes harvesting trees very dangerous! It also screws big time with Forestry Tree Breeding (if you include it).
Also, the default settings for netherrack turn the nether into even more of a deathtrap. Any block update on the ceiling areas, and large chunks of the roof will collapse.
Oh, plus, if you add any dungeon generating mods, check the structures are stable! The defaults with Enviromine result in very unstable structures.

 

[1SDAN]

What is wrong with the tweakers you are using? What tweakers are you using?

Minetweaker 3 and Modtweaker. Last time I checked they didn't have TC support but I may be wrong.

EDIT: WOW! MdTwkr does have TC support! It's now officially on my list!

@Golrith yeah, I noticed the leaf falling thing with Tree Breeding, it's not really my favorite thing either though because I'm going to have to give their leaves the chance to drop fruit too like I have planned for the vanilla trees.

 

[Qazplm601]

Minetweaker 3 and Modtweaker. Last time I checked they didn't have TC support but I may be wrong.

EDIT: WOW! MdTwkr does have TC support! It's now officially on my list!

@Golrith yeah, I noticed the leaf falling thing with Tree Breeding, it's not really my favorite thing either though because I'm going to have to give their leaves the chance to drop fruit too like I have planned for the vanilla trees.

Thought so i especially like the research support, although it is quite advanced. it has always been my dream to gate energy teleportation behind TC research.(just my opinion)

 

[1SDAN]

Today's progress:

• Added TC and various related mods
• Lurked the MCF for an hour or so
• Configured the configs for Hunger Overhaul, Iguana's Tinker's Tweaks and Iguana's Tweaks
• Unable to find the version of Railcraft where the search items creative tab doesn't crash the game
• Decided that magic will start with Witchery, move to TC and then finally to Blood Magic.
• On the fence about Botania, it just seems like there's too many different sources of magical power. I like the mod's concept but I just can't figure out how to work it.

And now for a little information about Armor:

Armor in NAM starts at Log, made out of logs it is quite expensive as block breaking is 2.5 times slower. After killing some sheep or cows you can get leather armor

(Each Sheep drops 1 Wool, a wool can be made into 1 cloth (3 with shears) and three cloths make Advanced Fabric, which is used for leather armor)

Leather however is also quite expensive. Cows drop one Cow hide each. Cow hide can be combined with 4 animal fat (made from meat) to make one Leather. One Beef or Mutton gives 1 animal fat while porkchops give 2.

Once you obtain copper you can now farm wheat, and the shaff of which can be used to breed sheep and cows. This is important for the next step.

Once you have collected a large amount of wool and a few leather you can combine 6 advanced cloth 2 leather and 1 slimeball to make Yarn, and with inversed values of leather and cloth you can make Twine.

With Yarn you can combine 4 of it with a block of wool and 4 advanced cloths to make 2 paddings. These paddings can be used to make Padded Armor which really isn't very useful at first. However, they are needed for various armor recipes.

Twine however is used for fishing rods instead of string (you'll also need a metal nugget), leads and Growthcraft Ropes and a variety of other types of similar products.

With padded armor you can now get into Metal Armor. You must simply combine 1 padded vest with the ingredients of one copper or Refined Leather Chestplate to make a chestplate of that type. What's Refined Leather? It's a form of Leather made from 1 leather and 1/8 of a piece of wax. Beeswax or Ender Wax will do. What's Ender Wax? It's a polymer made of Seeds and an Ender Pearl used for new Wax-based products.

Once you gain access to iron you can now make chainmail armor out of 27 iron for the complete set (4 iron nuggets for 2 Chains, 9 chains for 1 chainmail, 27 chainmail and one of each type of padded armor for 1 Chainmail Armor Set IIRC)

With chaimail you can now combine it with 4 iron blocks and 4 iron ingots to make an iron chestplate. Boots take 2b2i, leggings 3b4i and helmets 2b3i

You can also make bronze armor using only ingots

With all of that completed you can upgrade your padding to gold padding for a sitton of gold to allow yourself to make Diamond and Steel Armor for the final tiers of basic armoring. Remember: Gold armor only requires Padded Armor so it can be nice in a pinch.

 

[Qazplm601]

Today's progress:

• Added TC and various related mods
• Lurked the MCF for an hour or so
• Configured the configs for Hunger Overhaul, Iguana's Tinker's Tweaks and Iguana's Tweaks
• Unable to find the version of Railcraft where the search items creative tab doesn't crash the game
• Decided that magic will start with Witchery, move to TC and then finally to Blood Magic.
• On the fence about Botania, it just seems like there's too many different sources of magical power. I like the mod's concept but I just can't figure out how to work it.

And now for a little information about Armor:

Armor in NAM starts at Log, made out of logs it is quite expensive as block breaking is 2.5 times slower. After killing some sheep or cows you can get leather armor

(Each Sheep drops 1 Wool, a wool can be made into 1 cloth (3 with shears) and three cloths make Advanced Fabric, which is used for leather armor)

Leather however is also quite expensive. Cows drop one Cow hide each. Cow hide can be combined with 4 animal fat (made from meat) to make one Leather. One Beef or Mutton gives 1 animal fat while porkchops give 2.

Once you obtain copper you can now farm wheat, and the shaff of which can be used to breed sheep and cows. This is important for the next step.

Once you have collected a large amount of wool and a few leather you can combine 6 advanced cloth 2 leather and 1 slimeball to make Yarn, and with inversed values of leather and cloth you can make Twine.

With Yarn you can combine 4 of it with a block of wool and 4 advanced cloths to make 2 paddings. These paddings can be used to make Padded Armor which really isn't very useful at first. However, they are needed for various armor recipes.

Twine however is used for fishing rods instead of string (you'll also need a metal nugget), leads and Growthcraft Ropes and a variety of other types of similar products.

With padded armor you can now get into Metal Armor. You must simply combine 1 padded vest with the ingredients of one copper or Refined Leather Chestplate to make a chestplate of that type. What's Refined Leather? It's a form of Leather made from 1 leather and 1/8 of a piece of wax. Beeswax or Ender Wax will do. What's Ender Wax? It's a polymer made of Seeds and an Ender Pearl used for new Wax-based products.

Once you gain access to iron you can now make chainmail armor out of 27 iron for the complete set (4 iron nuggets for 2 Chains, 9 chains for 1 chainmail, 27 chainmail and one of each type of padded armor for 1 Chainmail Armor Set IIRC)

With chaimail you can now combine it with 4 iron blocks and 4 iron ingots to make an iron chestplate. Boots take 2b2i, leggings 3b4i and helmets 2b3i

You can also make bronze armor using only ingots

With all of that completed you can upgrade your padding to gold padding for a sitton of gold to allow yourself to make Diamond and Steel Armor for the final tiers of basic armoring. Remember: Gold armor only requires Padded Armor so it can be nice in a pinch.

what is the crashlog for the creative search thing? (i had a crash with it too, earlier, i want to see if we are having the same problem)

 

[madnewmy]

Today's progress:

• Added TC and various related mods
• Lurked the MCF for an hour or so
• Configured the configs for Hunger Overhaul, Iguana's Tinker's Tweaks and Iguana's Tweaks
• Unable to find the version of Railcraft where the search items creative tab doesn't crash the game
• Decided that magic will start with Witchery, move to TC and then finally to Blood Magic.
• On the fence about Botania, it just seems like there's too many different sources of magical power. I like the mod's concept but I just can't figure out how to work it.

And now for a little information about Armor:

Armor in NAM starts at Log, made out of logs it is quite expensive as block breaking is 2.5 times slower. After killing some sheep or cows you can get leather armor

(Each Sheep drops 1 Wool, a wool can be made into 1 cloth (3 with shears) and three cloths make Advanced Fabric, which is used for leather armor)

Leather however is also quite expensive. Cows drop one Cow hide each. Cow hide can be combined with 4 animal fat (made from meat) to make one Leather. One Beef or Mutton gives 1 animal fat while porkchops give 2.

Once you obtain copper you can now farm wheat, and the shaff of which can be used to breed sheep and cows. This is important for the next step.

Once you have collected a large amount of wool and a few leather you can combine 6 advanced cloth 2 leather and 1 slimeball to make Yarn, and with inversed values of leather and cloth you can make Twine.

With Yarn you can combine 4 of it with a block of wool and 4 advanced cloths to make 2 paddings. These paddings can be used to make Padded Armor which really isn't very useful at first. However, they are needed for various armor recipes.

Twine however is used for fishing rods instead of string (you'll also need a metal nugget), leads and Growthcraft Ropes and a variety of other types of similar products.

With padded armor you can now get into Metal Armor. You must simply combine 1 padded vest with the ingredients of one copper or Refined Leather Chestplate to make a chestplate of that type. What's Refined Leather? It's a form of Leather made from 1 leather and 1/8 of a piece of wax. Beeswax or Ender Wax will do. What's Ender Wax? It's a polymer made of Seeds and an Ender Pearl used for new Wax-based products.

Once you gain access to iron you can now make chainmail armor out of 27 iron for the complete set (4 iron nuggets for 2 Chains, 9 chains for 1 chainmail, 27 chainmail and one of each type of padded armor for 1 Chainmail Armor Set IIRC)

With chaimail you can now combine it with 4 iron blocks and 4 iron ingots to make an iron chestplate. Boots take 2b2i, leggings 3b4i and helmets 2b3i

You can also make bronze armor using only ingots

With all of that completed you can upgrade your padding to gold padding for a sitton of gold to allow yourself to make Diamond and Steel Armor for the final tiers of basic armoring. Remember: Gold armor only requires Padded Armor so it can be nice in a pinch.

For botania, you might be able to disable flower generation or disable flower to petal and change it to use some machine of some sort (would say at the same time then BM)

Pack sounds quite fun an hardcore blood and bones! But I don't see how it will be feasible without pam's harvestcraft...