getting started with Thermal Expansion?

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by CaelThunderwing, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. DanteGalileo

    DanteGalileo Active Member

    I know this post is almost a month old and I wish I'd seen it then as this is my first foray into TE (and I'm really loving it). I thought I'd point out, though, for beginners that, as I understand it, a tick is actually 1/20 of a second rather than 20 seconds.

    So now I am making a ton of power. What do people typically do with it. I am mostly just charging Redstone Energy Cells and having those power quarries and such.
  2. Vovk

    Vovk Active Member

    gah such a bad typo. Changed, and thank you :D

    as for the power, you could use it for lava/obsidian gen - feed the obsidian into a crusher and get the obs dust needed for blastproof rails.

    personally I use it for obsidian gen + builder to create modular mage towers :D though I really wanna start using more xychordite for those things nowadays. Quarry is always a useful thing, so are basically all the forestry machines.
  3. MFINN23

    MFINN23 Active Member

    Based on this info I'd gather the best thing to do is to run a boiler super hot for a while and fill up redstone cells with industrial steam engines at a rapid rate for use later.
  4. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Tech Support

    You can also pipe steam out to do things like power a Hobbyist Steam Engine to keep your Forestry Arboretum and Logger (both) running on steam, meaning the entire Peat Bog's production can go right into the Boiler.
  5. Vovk

    Vovk Active Member

    piping steam out is a nice non-lossy way of distributing your energy, however it plays havoc on your sanity and the extensibility/modularity of your base design. Having to move engines or build separate engines in different places where you need MJ can get much more expensive than just putting all your steam engines directly onto or next to your boiler and piping the energy out using conduits. The energy loss of a conduit system is almost negligible when you're dealing with the 144 MJ/tick output of a boiler.

    The cool thing about the conduit system is that you can also stick extra engines of different types anywhere in the system you wish and be assured that power is reaching all of your vital machines. Currently running tests and it seems like redstone conduit can transport over 2000 MJ/tick (testing with 20 energy cells all outputting to 20 empty cells at max, matching the charge rate of 1 cell to 1 cell)

    edit: test list:

    1 cell to 1 cell, 2 conduits, 1 MJ per tick - pending, total time of completion 166 minutes

    1 cell to 1 cell, 2 conduits. 25 MJ per tick - 5% loss

    1 cell to 1 cell, 2 conduits, 50 MJ per tick - 5% loss

    1 cell to 1 cell, 2 conduits 100 MJ per tick - 5% loss

    1 cell to 1 cell, 50 conduits 100 MJ per tick - 5% loss

    1 cell to 1 cell, 50 conduits, 100 MJ per tick, conduits form loops everywhere (5 stacks of 10 conduits) - 5% loss

    1 cell to 1 cell, 11 conduits 100 MJ per tick - 5% loss

    10 cells to 10 cells, 11 conduits 100 MJ per tick each - 5% loss

    20 cells to 20 cells, 11 conduits 100 MJ per tick each - 5% loss

    it seems as if the length of conduit doesn't matter, but the time to complete the transfer might. Will know upon completion of tests.

    energy loss always seems to be 5%. cobble conductive pipe loses 1% per pipe block, golden loses 0.1% per pipe block. This seems to show that it is always better to use golden pipe when you are running a system of less than 50 pipes and your system has no loops (you might need to make a loop for a compact build, if so - a conduit is required)


    Conduits cannot have gates attached to them, but a cell on a conduit will stop outputting MJ when there is nowhere for it to go, so a system less than 50 long working with gold pipes and storage cells must have a gate on the cell attached to every machine in the system in order to conserve power. Alternately, if you were using the gates for some other purpose and required one on your conduit system, you'd need to run structure pipes which means 2x as much wiring in order to get the same effect as gold pipes.
  6. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Tech Support

    Fair point, however if you are just powering the infrastructure, it's fire and forget. Installation might be an issue, sure, but once you have it installed (running it in the middle of your walls, under your lawn, and otherwise out of sight) it runs itself.

    As far as extensibility/modularity, I wouldn't say that, at least not if you take your future piping into consideration when laying out how your modules are put together. After all, you are still having to run your power lines, so you'll be digging everything up anyways.

    Considering Liquiducts can run about a third of the total steam from your setup (up to 48 MJ/t worth of Steam), you might end up laying less line down in the long run by running steam to sub-plants more locally to the power requirements.

    It's a matter of personal preference, I suppose.
  7. Daemonblue

    Daemonblue Active Member

    Don't know where you're getting the 48 mj worth of steam on liquiducts. So far the only limitations I've noticed on those is the boilers themselves - a single liquiduct can easily handle enough steam to remove the 720 steam from a 36HP setup. In fact, I know it can handle at least two more. I actually plan on testing how many boilers one pipe can support - basically have two boilers 1 block apart and in that area connect them to liquiducts, channel all the steam into one pipe and use that single pipe and see how many engines it can run. The bonus is this system is extendable fairly easily so, given enough time for the boilers to heat up, it shouldn't take long to see their throughput.
  8. Vovk

    Vovk Active Member

    I will have to test this again. Last I checked, 1 liquiduct on a 36H boiler gave enough steam for 2 industrial engines (16 MJ/tick)

    This may have changed in a TE update though... I seem to remember something in the changelog about liquid viscosities being fixed.

    PS: @ shneeky I suppose the perosnal preference is a big factor. I like the fact that conduit redistribute power where it's needed, but the aesthetic of running steam everywhere and the ability to designate a dedicated set of engines for a specific machine set is always nice.

    Edit: just finished the test. 1 36H boiler, 1 liquiduct line coming out, 2 industrial steam engines run at full power 8 MJ per tick each, 3 engines run at 5.4 each... how in the hell are you getting over a boiler's worth of steam per tick into 1 duct?

    Edit2: aah I get it. minecraft pressure physics don't really line up with actual physics on this one :D cover the boiler in liquiducts and pipe all into 1 like daemonblue says... that's definitely a weird effect and wondering if it's an intentional thing or not.
  9. Cronos988

    Cronos988 Active Member

    So, does anything apart from boilers have increased fuel efficiency?
    Is there a point to using steam engines (the TE ones) instead of Stirling engines other than a more compact setup?
  10. Hydra

    Hydra Well-Known Member

    The TE steam engines give 2MJ/t, stirling engines only give 1 MJ/t, so that's a rather nice benefit.

    @Vovk: only when drawing out of a boiler there is a limitation in the amount of steam you're getting out. If you connect 1 liquiduct to 9 spots on a boiler you'll get all the steam out (in the case of a 36HP boiler). So yes, you can connect 18 industrial engines to 1 liquiduct, that liquiduct just has to have 9 connections to the boiler.
  11. Vovk

    Vovk Active Member

    yay 2 month necro.

    yep in my last edit I did realize that property of steam boilers. thanks though :D

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