Forge Lexicon Exploits

[eable2]

There seem to be some easy exploits involving the forge lexicon block (at least in the Mindcrack pack).

For those if you who don't know, the forge lexicon is a relatively cheap "machine" that requires no power. It looks like a re-textured enchanting table. It's used, for example, to convert any of the four different copper ingots (from different mods) to any copper ingot you choose, for easier storage. It's from Omnitools.

I've already found some issues with this block. First, it allows you to freely convert any xychorium gem to another color. Second, it treats basalt cobble, smooth basalt, and basalt brick as interchangeable - so you don't have to smelt the basalt cobble to make it smooth again, you just stick it in the forge lexicon for free.

I'm sure there are many more. Any others people know about?

 

[Golrith]

No doubt the basalt is an overlook. As to the XY ores, currently they are just decorative blocks, so doesn't matter they are interchangable. Until we see what else you can do with them, they may or may not be interchangable in future.

 

[Bagman817]

It's a bit of a stretch to call those 'exploits,' in my opinion.

 

[eculc]

I don't believe that basalt cobble should be included in that list, but brick/smooth/pavers ARE interchangeable, correct?

 

[ICountFrom0]

While there are exploits, the lexicon is the tool that brings to light a misuse of the ore dictionary, rather then the problem in and of itself.

Based on the assumption that nobody has lied to forge with false entries to the ore dictionary there would be nothing unusual possible with the lexicon.

If the items made equal in the ore dictionary are honestly equal, then the ability to trade them with the lexicon is not an issue.

If the items made equal in the ore dictionary are not equal, then the inequality is due to the person who wrote them into the dictionary, not the lexicon.

Even with this being true, there is both the option for devs to tell the lexicon to not "equate" a given block in the mod they made, and the option for server admin to slip in item numbers to a cfg file and prevent them from being traded on a given server.

Very balanced. Very fair.

So, honestly sounds like XYCraft wants the ore to be interchangeable for the moment, and why not, it's decorative. As for basalt smelting being bypassed, I'd personally leave basalt cobble off that list of equalities and only allow smooth to brick. That's just me though.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Its more of an exploit with Gregtech adding all the circuits/machine frames to the ore dictionary.

 

[ICountFrom0]

well, shucks, I go through such trouble to use delicate wording, and you go and toss the discussion into the briar patch with one line Celestial.

Sad to say though, quite a bit of the not quite equal things being given the weight of equality are from that one thing. Makes a few things easier to make, but is one mess of a shortcut.

 

[EternalDensity]

well, shucks, I go through such trouble to use delicate wording, and you go and toss the discussion into the briar patch with one line Celestial.

This isn't what that metaphor means at all.

 

[Zjarek_S]

The fact that an items can be interchangeable in some recipes doesn't mean that they are equal. Putting GT completely aside, does forestry cherry wood should be produced in lexicon from oak wood? Even TE doesn't accept other obsidian dusts except pulverized obsidian as a design choice. I think it is just too general solution for specific problem, which is different types of ingots (EBXL trees are currently useful in almost everything except BC and Fermenter).

 

[OmegaPython]

The ore dictionary (and so the lexicon) was intended for the same ores and ingots being interchangeable even if they were added by different mods. I assume XyCraft stuff is just temporary, although Soaryn may have reasons for it.
And Gregtech... well... I just won't go into that. But it is a misuse of the ore dictionary.

 

[Lambert2191]

Forge Lexicon works pretty well until a certain mod decided that crafted items like circuits should go in there... :/

 

[netmc]

for my modpack, I personally went through and disabled all the circuit, gate, circuit board equalities, and limited it to the normal ic2 ones only. Much easier to see the recipes now.

 

[Honza8D]

ore dictionary was never about equal stuff. It was for same ores to be usable interchangebly, but same ores from different mods aren't equal. The best example is factorization silver. It spaws in huge veins and you get stacks of it easily, how could it be equal to for example RP2 silver? Its not, because RP2 silver is much more rare and factorization one breaks the balance. And this can be applied to any other ore as long as they dont have exactly same genration rate. Another example is wood. Why is cherry wood in ore dictionary registered same as jungle wood? They are not equal, if nothing else jungle wood can grow cocoa beans.

 

[Sengir]

Another example is wood. Why is cherry wood in ore dictionary registered same as jungle wood? They are not equal, if nothing else jungle wood can grow cocoa beans.

Because it is a crafting equivalent. Any recipe that accepts wood X should also accept wood Y.

Crafting equivalent does not mean "item equivalent" though and that's where the Forge lexicon has a weakness. It treats the ore dictionary as describing item equivalency instead of just crafting equivalency.

 

[Golrith]

Love your signature Sengir!

 

[EternalDensity]

Love your signature Sengir!

I didn't notice it until after I Liked his post (because it explains the situation so perfectly.)

Sengir: Thank you for explaining.

 

[Democretes]

Personally, I love Gregs response to the signature more than the signature itself.

All in all the Lexicon is balanced until someone goes and fiddles with something that shouldn't be fiddled with.

 

[Abdiel]

As the OmniTools wiki says,

Version 2.0.0 adds a new block as well - the Forge Lexicon. This block allows you to convert ore-dictionary enabled ores from one version to another. In theory this block is both overpowered and completely useless, depending on your point of view.

I don't mind transmuting XY crystals (but for whatever reason blue ones aren't compatible with anything... I have a chest full of them now, as I mostly use black/white/red) as they are purely decorative. Transmuting GT circuits and TC steel I view as an exploit and simply don't do.

 

[Narcisism]

saying that, but not quoting it, dirty pool.

Hop in a game with GT enabled and put 8 Nether Stars surrounding a Dragon Egg in the crafting table

 

[King Lemming]

The old version of the Lexicon (the one being referred to here) relied on the server admin knowing what to blacklist and being willing to do it.

Lesson learned - the new one (OmniTools 3.0+) is whitelist by default and will generate a list that it feels is appropriate if not provided one. This new list can then be modified should the server admin choose to do so.

Strictly speaking, none of the issues with the Lexicon are outright exploits, as the ability to disable the conversion has always existed, it's a question of willpower.