Yes, that's because GregTech added it (vanilla IC2 won't let you macerate diamond ore). Because it's the feature that GT added to IC2 vanilla, it's his choice to change it without giving any config file. Now you need to do something like this to get 2.125 diamonds: Put the ore into Industrial Grinder, and then to Implosion Compressor.
Can the intrusiveness of GregTech be reigned in?
- Thread starter Moleculor
- Start date
Yes, that's because GregTech added it (vanilla IC2 won't let you macerate diamond ore). Because it's the feature that GT added to IC2 vanilla, it's his choice to change it without giving any config file. Now you need to do something like this to get 2.125 diamonds: Put the ore into Industrial Grinder, and then to Implosion Compressor.
Theoretically fortune 3 gives 2.2 diamond per diamond ore (it's an average value so the more ores you break the closer the number to 2.2). Grinder gives 1 diamond+1.5 diamond dusts, converting the dust to diamond with implosion compressor will net around 2.125 diamond per diamond ore.
But if you only want diamond/gem dusts, grinder is the way to go.
Check how useful diamond dust is, notably glass fiber cable and iridium alloy ingot. That 1.5 dust needs to be considered at full value. Dust is bad when its your only diamond - making macerator or pulverizer pretty pointless, but the grinder has significant value over fortune 3.
I know how useful it is because I'm currently using it to make iridium plates for the iridium reflector..
I usually store my diamond/gem ores and only break it if I need it. But if you only want pure diamond/gemstone, fortune pickaxe is still better..
Just a note on this: you don't even NEED a macerator or pulvy. You can craft yourself a few Flint Mortars (flint + bowl, 1 use each) and you get the dusts. It can't be used on higher end materials but for those, it's that easy.
Well i wasn't trying to prove that minecraft follows real life physics, because it would be pointless, i just wanted to say that it doesn't mean its breaking conservation of mass. Im minecraft universe bronze just has twice the density than its components. Its not realistic but neither is minecraft. I mean i dont hear you complaining about infinite cobblestone generator, yet its much more obvious breaking of real life physics.
So he thinks that 'free' energy in the form of a setup that creates scaffolds is bad yet he himself adds a more efficient geothermal generator that benefits from the free nether lava issue?
That guy is completely clueless when it comes to game design. His idea of making stuff harder is to make it take longer. His idea of adding stuff is just making his own more advances versions of stuff that already exists. And his idea of 'balance' is making recipies of other mods take rediculous amounts of rare materials. Sjeez...
When a game takes hours to "complete" the tech-tree/acquisition side of things - lengthening that out to a few days it hardly a sound argument. Most decent games you play will last numbers of hours on a campaign, but it is the ones that will take days to complete everything that people remember. On top ofthat is minecrafts sandbox mode but that is a slight aside in survival.
His balancing is debatable (obviously) but it's not like a professional company where they round out all the changes for everything balanced. Changes come out as he balances things. You will have one part while he is working on the second part, and balance updates happen almost daily from his side.
About the thermal generator - the same recipes you talk about would take weeks to create using thermal generators. It would take a few hundred just to power a matter fabricator efficiently.
You realize that you get 12000 eu per 3 planks+3 sticks (16 scaffolds) right? and wood is like the easiest thing to get..
Regarding to Thermal Generator, it's like one of the best thing he ever made lol, but IIRC you will get 29800 eu/lava source tile if you put pump (to get lava) next to geothermal generator, so thermal generator is just a better as in you don't have to put it next to pump..and of course more eu/t, less space due to pump, and you get the cells back..
Making stuff tedious doesn't add to a game. Minecraft (with the FTB pack) is a wonderful game that lasts a LONG time because there's so much to do, not because every single recipe takes a long time to complete.
But that doesn't matter. To me it's obvious that Greg doesn't understand that the only thing that needs 'fixing' is the free energy that lava pumped from the Nether provides, together with solar panels. For the rest he doesn't have to touch any recipies or whatever. If he wants to add his own version of items, fine, but there is no reason whatsoever to change stuff in Forestry or IC, those mods are fine as they are.[DOUBLEPOST=1357638315][/DOUBLEPOST]
Guess that's why everyone is pumping Lava from the Nether or making advanced solar panels. Having an automated treefarm setup is much more complex than simply pump lava. That thing alone is the biggest issue there is with the current mod packs: lava energy is too easy and too good.
Then change everything back. That is what the config is for and there is even a guide to it on these forums. I remember someone mentioning that it's always the whiners who can't be bothered to change anything in their packs.
I wanna see these people pumping lava from the nether for making anything out of iridium. It is out of line for the start of the game (although not majorly so - and honestly the magma crucible rotation is more of an exploit than pumping the nether) but as mentioned that is such a small part I don't see a huge issue with it.
The problem I have is the ability to centrifuge lava into copper, tin, electrum and tungsten. These are all extremely valuable resources at most points in the game thanks to the new ore gen (mindcrack 1.4.6), and paired with any large amount of lava (nether/crucible generation) it creates way too much of too valuable resources. I've personally avoided using it and mined all the stuff manually on my server, but I might be tempted when it comes to the fusion reactor level components just to get the easy parts of component creation out of the way.
I guess my suggested change for centrifuging lava would be:
Input: Lava x 64
Input 2: Empty
Output 1: Obsidian dust x 40
Output 2: Gold x 8 (as oppose to electrum)
Output 3: Copper x 8 (down from 16?)
Output 4: Tin x 8 (down from 40)
I wanna see these people pumping lava from the nether for making anything out of iridium. It is out of line for the start of the game (although not majorly so - and honestly the magma crucible rotation is more of an exploit than pumping the nether) but as mentioned that is such a small part I don't see a huge issue with it.
The problem I have is the ability to centrifuge lava into copper, tin, electrum and tungsten. These are all extremely valuable resources at most points in the game thanks to the new ore gen (mindcrack 1.4.6), and paired with any large amount of lava (nether/crucible generation) it creates way too much of too valuable resources. I've personally avoided using it and mined all the stuff manually on my server, but I might be tempted when it comes to the fusion reactor level components just to get the easy parts of component creation out of the way.
I guess my suggested change for centrifuging lava would be:
Input: Lava x 64
Input 2: Empty
Output 1: Obsidian dust x 40
Output 2: Gold x 8 (as oppose to electrum)
Output 3: Copper x 8 (down from 16?)
Output 4: Tin x 8 (down from 40)
Advanced solar panel is a problem for sure.. It's like the easiest set up to run your matter fabricator effectively..
It's pretty fun with GregTech because I am no longer able to finish the game in 1 week.. After 1 month of playing I only have 15 fusion coils.. *sigh*..
It's pretty fun with GregTech because I am no longer able to finish the game in 1 week.. After 1 month of playing I only have 15 fusion coils.. *sigh*..
As much as I love nuclear I don't think pushing everyone down nuclear to supply fusion sounds fun. It will limit choice.
Solar panels could probably do with more changes though - why not having the silicon plates burn out on advanced solars or something (not exactly realistic to time but it would require upkeep via an industrial blast furnace + however you want to obtain silicon)
Solar panels could probably do with more changes though - why not having the silicon plates burn out on advanced solars or something (not exactly realistic to time but it would require upkeep via an industrial blast furnace + however you want to obtain silicon)
Good to see that you're still getting called a whiner if you simply disagree with something.
Personally I don't see why you guys play the Mindcrack pack and then whine about GregTech. Mindcrack is supposed to be a hardcore experience and the Mindcrackers want GregTech on 100% hard mode. If you don't like that: change the config or play another pack. I think it's as simple as that, I don't even understand why there is a discussion about this.
Current output of tin for centrifuging lava is already 8 ingots. Plus the total cost of the cans used. Look at the three recipes. One for lava cells (40 tin output) one for lava cans (24 tin output), one for wax cans (8 tin output) and one for still lava (8 tin output) achieved by just pumping lava into the centrifuge. The output is always 8 ingots more than the cost for the 64 cells/cans.
Why are you changing the Tungsten dust to obsidian? Tungsten isn't rare now, and is of extremely limited use until you have fusion setup, and the obsidian is like a backdoor way to get iron out of lava again (which was removed, compared to 1.4.2 which had pyrite instead of copper - 40 obsidian will centrifuge to 5 iron)
And silver is basically an empty ingot unless you use factorization mod to process ore- and only more needed then until you get your solar power setup, so again the change from 6 electrum to 8 gold almost seems like a backdoor way to actually make centrifuging lava more useful.
So in short, the only meaningful change you're suggesting that isn't actually making the output more useful than now is the copper, and I'm wondering why you care so much for that single change?
"Everybody"?
Last night I pumped a huge lava lake into an iron tank because the lake was in my way of construction, and it just sits there. My EU power generation is currently 20 gas turbines, being self powered by methane from a rubber tree farm and 10 centrifuges (The number of centrifuges is excessive, I think balance would be 4 or 5).
There are lots of methods of EU power generation that are input free, and you complain about lava? Once you can run an industrial centrifuge and have some marble, windmills are dirt cheap. Have redpower provide buckets for watermills and you can generate completely maintenance free in reasonably high EU density. Charcoal can be converted to methane at a profit of about 80k EU per charcoal.
Pumping from the nether is far more for magmetic MJ engines than EU.
Point taken, remove the tin altogether then.
tungsten is getting more uses by the day. Also given how iron is arguably the most abundant mineral around these days - I don't see the issue with getting extra iron out. Tin/copper are limiters, iron is not.
I don't see how you can jump to this conclusion "I need to use more of my own minerals so the centrifuge nerf would be more useful"????? If you use factorization you probably eat up your silver, and if you don't then you now create some balance. You cannot argue you make something better by making it give less (other than in terms of balance/satisfaction)
I don't "care so much", it was just an addition to the post. Still you are turning nether lakes/netherrack into a whole host of other resources and generating energy at the same time.
I'd have no objection to removing the obsidian completely either, given that it just seemed the logical conclusion from lava (you can turn lava into obsidian infinitely anyway and a centrifuge is going to have comparable speeds to mining the stuff!) due to vanilla mechanics.
The whole point is to not have a 'free' tungsten generation too. It appears to be a mineral greg is making to be a super-solid endgame material that you can get a small amount of early on through some dusts. That doesn't mean making a tungsten generator makes much sense in my eyes...
Actually tungsten dusts are pretty abundance once you arrive in the end, the problem with tungsten is that you need to convert the dust to ingot and it costs 200K per ingot and take a LONG time to process, so tungsten is fine, and also I usually used it with brass and aluminium to make 6 mixed metal ingots per recipe (pretty awesome 
). Honestly I never use the lava -> metals process because I already have too much ores from my mining operations, and with suitable chemical I can triple my ores (except for tin) or get extra gold from 1 copper ore.
Btw, the charcoal-> carbon cell (1000 eu to process) + 4 Hydrogen cells (93k eu to process) => 5 methane cells (225k eu to use) has been nerfed, in the latest version you need additional 112k to process C cell+ H2 cells to CH4 cells, and it will net around 3800 eu/methane cell or 19K eu per charcoal so it's pretty ok.
Judging from this nerf, I have the feeling that soon he will nerf every other easy ways to gain eu. Btw have you guys tried the Single Use battery? with only 1 Hg cell + 20 copper cable and 20 redstone you get 500k+ eu net energy.. it's also a pretty good way to get energy.
). Honestly I never use the lava -> metals process because I already have too much ores from my mining operations, and with suitable chemical I can triple my ores (except for tin) or get extra gold from 1 copper ore.Btw, the charcoal-> carbon cell (1000 eu to process) + 4 Hydrogen cells (93k eu to process) => 5 methane cells (225k eu to use) has been nerfed, in the latest version you need additional 112k to process C cell+ H2 cells to CH4 cells, and it will net around 3800 eu/methane cell or 19K eu per charcoal so it's pretty ok.
Judging from this nerf, I have the feeling that soon he will nerf every other easy ways to gain eu. Btw have you guys tried the Single Use battery? with only 1 Hg cell + 20 copper cable and 20 redstone you get 500k+ eu net energy.. it's also a pretty good way to get energy
.It's actually 4 methane and 1 empty for 180k, but that's quibbling. It's a shame, because my rubber farm has generated far more carbon plates than I'll use in months and I was hoping to convert over to adding hydrogen to all the extra carbon. But, he hints on the IC2 forums that centrifuging rubber trees will be less EU-profitable soon anyways so it may not matter.
Judging from this nerf, I have the feeling that soon he will nerf every other easy ways to gain eu. Btw have you guys tried the Single Use battery? with only 1 Hg cell + 20 copper cable and 20 redstone you get 500k+ eu net energy.. it's also a pretty good way to get energy
There is a floor point where easy energy can't be nerfed by him anymore. Already, once you can get past the initial solar generator and get to the advanced one, you probably should. I made a conscious choice to avoid solar this game, which is why I'm using gas turbines, but the solar would have been a "better" option even now.
At some point people will just pump the nether for lava for EU generation as well as MJ.